The Coalition of the Swilling

Where's a remote controlled Reggie Jackson when you need him?

Nobrainer: "I must kill...the Queen. I must kill...the Queen." ;-)

Am I the only one who finds it distasteful that the monarchy that we threw off our backs accompanied by high sounding words about the evils of monarchy is now being treated like royalty? Literally.

I think George Mason and James Madison and crew are rolling in their graves.

Personally, I think we should only interact with their elected government, not the depraved remnants of their monarchy. QE II is not herself depraved, but the institution is.

It annoys me that we so freely abandon our principles.

Oh, Mike, for GOD'S sake! He was just being pleasant to the little old lady. (And she IS the titular head of state and that's how they LIKE it, otherwise there'd still be roundheads in charge.)

AND, she speaks ENGLISH!

As to her 'icy stare', she'd spent the whole press conference squinting in the sun, so she wasn't glaring at "W".

It annoys me that you're such an ill-mannered, ill-tempered poo-head. {8^O

So there.
{8^P

"I think we should only interact with their elected government, not the depraved remnants of their monarchy."

She is their head of state. Their elected government is Her Majesty's Government.

We give them the courtesies we give to any head of state, but perhaps a wee bit more first because they are our closest ally and second because they are the country from which ours sprang.

"To my knowledge no reigning Queen of England had ever been winked at."

More likely to be a result of lack of information than lack of winkies in the Royal Palace...

"I think we should only interact with their elected government, not the depraved remnants of their monarchy."

Only if we don't have to interact with the depraved members of our elected government.

Yes, she's a sweet little old lady (so long as you don't ask her to pay taxes) and it's just and proper to be polite to her as an individual. If I meet her someday, I will likewise be polite to her. That she is the most boring and least oppressive of their monarchs doesn't change the fact that she is a monarch, a form of government that gives preference, privilege and power to someone solely based on their birth. This is the definition of what we revolted against.

I like England, for all the reasons you guys do, and that doesn't include their food, of course, but this seems a bit much to me.

Allowing her to visit the country is one thing. Several years ago she was allowed to speak in a combined legislative session. That's too much.

She pays taxes, Mike. Has for quite a while. "Allowing" her to visit the country. Good God, we even gave Russian dictators leave to 'visit' the country. Juan Carlos? King Hussein? Queen Wilhemina? Just Katie-bar-the-door if we notice you've got a tiara?

And it was 200 years ago, so let it go, my son. Next thing ya know, you'll be grandstanding for us to pay slave reparations.

Such slander! This has nothing to do with reparations for those despicable people who kept others as slaves. No one is responsible for crimes committed by their ancestors.

QEII is likewise not responsible for the actions of George III. But she is responsible for her own actions and her actions include propping up an aristocracy and class system that are, or should be, distasteful to Americans. The aristocracy is much less powerful now than before, but it still has some vestige of power and it certainly has status from a formal class system.

Last I heard she doesn't pay taxes. If she does pay them, it hasn't been a long time, only a few years of her more than half a century as queen.

Yes, katie bar the if you're a monarch. That is one of the most basic fundamental of what makes our nation great, we do not recognize inherited titles. All individuals are created equal, not born with status. I'm not saying we should force them all to abdicate by force of arms, but we should not be throwing feasts for them. King Hussein should be tolerated, and allowed to visit, but not feasted. Juan Carlos is weaker than even Liz, but even he should be treated with little more than polite courtesy.

It comes down to this: Either we mean what we say, either we stand for our principles, or we're just another country without principles. I prefer having principles.

I'm guessing that Dell shouldn't provide a chapel dedicated for its employees who are members of the Church of England, eh?

Geeze, I was jealous because her tiara is so much nicer than mine. They did start paying taxes a few years back and she has kicked a bunch of second cousins off the royal dole. Think she'll loan out one of the tiaras?

She started paying income taxes in 1993.

I'd be curious how many other monarchs do. AND, like I said, she's the FREAKIN' QUEEN of England, the head of state AND they TRIED somebody different with Cromwell, but went straight 'way back to a monarch. That's how THEY FREELYchoose to govern themselves, just as WE chose not to have the whole 'king' thing. The Spanish wanted the royalty back after their asshole dictator kicked the bucket. And, as major dad points out, Russia might be a damn bit friendlier if the Bolsheviks hadn't massacred the royal family in the basement. As for Americans, it would seem we crave royalty, since we delight in creating our own, witness the Kennedys, the industrial barons of the late 1800's/early 1900's, et al.

(And did your fingers run ahead a smidge...re:"reparations for those despicable people who kept others as slaves"? Signed, the Stealth Slanderiss who also doubles as the content critic {8^P)

So, Mike ~ Kcruella just emailed me that she thinks you need a cocktail.

Or two.

See? We're one big, fuzzy family. I'm gonna have one, too. Just found a bottle of Banrock Station Cabernet/Shiraz for $3.97 and we're going to taste test before I head back to buy a case at that price. My hesitation is my doom.

And no, Kcruella, I hear she keeps them pretty close to the vest.

Ah. Yummy stuff. Raised glass:

"The Queen!"

I need a cocktail, but not until after my last final exam tomorrow!

Have one for me, Sis. Maybe I'll open a bottle of wine to go with the chicken roasting in the oven.

Damn, nothing quite like wearing a tiara to help thru a bad day. When I was in the office I would loan one out as needed when a coworker was overly stressed.

I'm back. Okay, Mike, since we've been friends these past 25 years, I will sacrifice myself in your stead, so that you pass your finals and can put food on the table in copious quantities through sweet baby's entire childhood and adolescence.

I'm off for another drink. That's the kinda gal I am.

Mike would not have asked you for a tiara loan, Kcruella. I feel sure of it. He might even have stomped it in a fit of colonial rage, had he less self control and respect for other people's tiaras, no matter how he loathes the concept.

Anyway, I have some swilling to attend to.

"Juan Carlos is weaker than even Liz..."

Constitutionally, no he isn't, nor by political convention either. Juan Carlos is the ONLY reason the fascists didn't take back power in their nearly-successful 1981 coup attempt.

Mike, we have diplomatic relations with plenty of countries and governments that are far less savory than constitutional monarchies. I truly don't understand having a special disdain for hereditary heads of state in practicing democracies versus self-appointed or "elected" (scare quotes intentional) tyrants.

I didn't say we shouldn't have diplomatic relations with them, I said we shouldn't have parties for them or invite them to address joint sessions of congress. In the case of England, our diplomatic relations go through the elected representatives, and rightly so.

I'm not pulling this out of thin air. I was taught in school that Americans are never to curtsey to royalty, especially English royalty. This was a long held tradition in our nation, stemming from the days of the American Revolution.

Most of my Spanish friends tell me that Juan Carlos played an important role, but that there was no way that military coup was going to work, and that's why Juan Carlos was able to succeed in his actions. If the usurpers were going to succeed, they needed a more cowed population, and more ruthlessness. They had neither.

Thanks for the assist, THS. I knew I could count on you to do that extra bit!

"In the case of England, our diplomatic relations go through the elected representatives, and rightly so."

One, in the case of ENGLAND rather than the United Kingdom, we do not have diplomatic relations because England is not an independent country. In fact it effectively has no seperate political existence, unlike the other component nations of the UK, which is why within ten years there will have to be a devolved English Parliament with powers approximate to the Scottish Parliament, or there will not be any more UK.

Two, our diplomatic relations with the UK do NOT formally go through elected representatives: our Ambassador is accredited to the Court of St. James and presents his credentials to the Queen. To say American diplomacy makes an end-run around the monarchy is nonsense: the elected government is Her Majesty's Government. Just as is true in Australia or Canada as well.

"I said we shouldn't have parties for them or invite them to address joint sessions of congress."

So state dinners for Vicente Fox or Jacques Chirac, but not for the heads of state of real allies? Isn't that an unnecessary and perverse degree of disrepect and disdain? As THS said, all of these countries have freely, democratically, CHOSEN to remain monarchies. But democracy in most of them is just as entrenched and robust as it is here.

Oh heck, more so Dave, because, y'know, Bushymcchimpster was selected not elected after all...