The Coalition of the Swilling

As much as I loved the trilogy he created, there were some major disappointments (i.e., choosing Sean Astin, and the guy who played Aragorn as actors, weepy and whimpy).

I also thought that almost every time he deviated from Tolkein, his flaky script writers added no value. For instance, why on earth did they put the stupid cliche of Frodo hanging on by one hand over the pit of Mordor? It added nothing and the scene is in 80% of all movies made and still isn't believable.

I can go on, but there's only so much space and time.

So, whereas I think there is a big risk in firing Peter Jackson, he is fallible. King Kong was a disaster of a movie. Had King Kong been a movie worth making, and had it been made well, he could have asked for whatever money he wanted. As it is, we can only hope that someone better will replace him. I don't think that it's impossible. He has set the standard with his revolution in filmmaking. Maybe someone else can develop the concept better.

I think Jackson's vision of LOTR has satisfied almost every rabid fan. I mean, we were all incredibly hopeful but horribly nervous about what he'd do to it. (TO the point of pouring over the productions releases and websites cheering, bemoaning or qestioning every tidbit that came out.) I will admit to an astonished "Who the F*CK is VIGO MORTENSEN?" but was very happy in the end.

But HOLY COW, was King Kong was unwatchable! A GAG fest, I'll give you that, Mike.

But I'll differ with you about Sean Astin. In the books, poor Sam is ALWAYS getting screwed by whimpy, whiney Frodo the P-word. I think he hit all the right notes ~ actually made Frodo's worthlessness even more palpable, however painful it was to endure. God, I cannot stand the Frodo character. Never have been able to. At the end, we've always been, like "GOOD! Get on the frickin' elf boat and GO AWAY!!" PLEASE!"

I was also satisfied. I don't own many dvd's, but I have the entire trilogy at home.

Vigo was a terrible choice. Such bad posture! The hero is supposed to be tall and ram rod straight, and look people in the eye, but Jackson chose a guy with a squeaky voice and seemed to think it more dramatic to show him with his head bowed or slouching all the time. Not my idea of a hero.

Sam is supposed to be the ever suffering, but faithful servant, but Astin can't cry convincingly to save his life, and he does it in almost every scene.

I agree, Frodo is a bit of a wuss. I don't really understand his character as written by Tolkein. His sense of morality is a bit misplaced.

``... why on earth did they put the stupid cliche of Frodo hanging on by one hand over the pit of Mordor?''

Oh, amen to that. In the book the scene in Mount Doom would probably play out in less than a minute in real time: Frodo refuses to destroy the Ring, puts it on, Gollum attacks, gets it back and in his jubilation leaps right into the pit - we see it through Sam's eyes and he barely has time to take it in before it's over. But Jackson drags it out...and drags it out...and drags it out. Arrrrgh!

And don't get me started on Denethor's Flaming Leap. A crew that can make CGI Mumakils and the Army of the Dead could surely manage a man lying on a pyre and holding up a palantir, couldn't they?

Viggo Mortensen was definitely a mixed blessing. Good in the fight scenes, but his diction could have been better.

But I like the trilogy in spite of that and other flaws, and I look forward to seeing what they do with the Hobbit. Who'll they cast as Bilbo, I wonder? Ian Holm's too old for the part.

I agree with THS that Jackson delivered far more than diehard Tolkien fans ever hoped (and I rather liked SOME of the FilmFrodo better than BookFrodo - but that I can get into some other time) but I also agree with Mike that once Jackson deviated from the TolkienCanon, his and his wife and other ? inserted truely nauseous pap. They tried to improve on Tolkien's sense of humor and failed miserably...and leeched out a lot of the spirit in certain moments that were implicit because of Tolkien's devotion to Christ.

Frodo was a problematic character and generally passive, but I was appreciative of Wood's more esoteric moments in the film that said a lot more than what the script gave him to say...which is why I like what Wood did with him. BookFrodo caused me a great deal of anger at the end of FOTR when he pretty much abandoned his friends to their fate without even a second thought. Which is why I glommed onto Pippin as my favorite character. He had the spunk and willingness to insert himself into a situation that Frodo never had. I remember when I first read the book, there seemed to be an underlying hostility between the two.

I was rather sold on Viggo after FOTR, but once the a**hole started coming out with his views on politics and started telling the audience how NOT to view LOTR film or book, the admiration factor deflated rather rapidly. I seriously doubt he has as much sustaining power as his girlfriend claimed he had.

Well, Im kind of glad Jackson didnt get the contract to do the Hobbit. Will be interesting who and what comes up next.

Annalucia, welcome! Ian Holm is a bit too long in the tooth, I'm afeared. And think of ALL the little people they'll have to cast, since the thing is gnome-filled to the rim! The advantage to gnomes is the heavy make-up, so you could use older actors.

You guys will probably laugh but, being "Sharp's Rifles", etc. fans, Ebola's and my first thought for the movie Aragorn was...Sean Bean. (Who wound up playing Boromir ~ another casting choice we were critical of BUT thankful he'd made it to the movie.)

Oh, Pippin ROCKS, Sharon. (You probably liked the movie Frodo more because your subconcious realized there was LESS of him. In the books it's page after tedious page of whimperwhimperwhinewhinesnifflesniffle-OW!)

Pippin R-O-C-K-S.

Heh. Faramir's revenge! Good. Interesting to think of who could have been Aragorn, especially as you need another strong actor to play Faramir in the proper version of the second two movies.

Joaquin Phoenix for one or the other, I'm thinking.

I like what you said THS, so Im gonna repeat it :

PIPPIN ROCKS!!

I agree with Billy Boyd: "it's all about Pippin." LOL

I like what you said THS, so Im gonna repeat it :

PIPPIN ROCKS!!

I agree with Billy Boyd: "it's all about Pippin." LOL

OOOPs didnt mean to make it a REPEAT!! SORRY!!

Oh and SEAN BEAN ROCKS - *swoon* Boromir was a truely creepy character, and Bean made him so DroolWorthy. Am glad they cast him as Boromir.

there had been some talk of Russell Crowe doing Aragorn *sigh*...need I say more?

(DOWN, girl, DOWN!! Keep yer wits about ye!!!)

Okay okay...LOL

truely it was a mistake!! did not mean for it to double post!

Honestly, tho. Ebola and I thought of him first and foremost as Aragorn but considered Faramir to be the perfect default role. But for him to be Boromir? Hello? My recollection of Boromir from the books was this big, loutish, arrogant swashbuckler. Gorgeous, lean, elegant, dangerous Msr. Bean doesn't fit THAT bill t'all.

You dont think so? I guess I was just grateful that such an excellent actor was chosen to do a character that I found really creepy and Bean brought a lot of empathy to a character that I was very glad to see killed off in the book. Only a real actor could do that.

But I agree with you: to see him as Aragorn would have been something else as well!

I won't laugh at Sean Bean at all. Much better choice for Aragorn, and I thought that the first time I saw the movie. What a waste, but at least he was Boromir.

I think Eliajah Wood is absolutely perfect as Frodo. I don't much like the character of Frodo, but Wood portrays him brilliantly. I think all the other actors were cast just perfectly.

(As for Lestat, well, I thought of Julian Bond or Sean Bean immediately. He was tall, dangerous, gorgeous...so Tom Cruise gets the part. What do I know?)

I loved Sean Astin in LOTR. I think he did such an awesome job.
As for Sean Bean, OMG. I'd have played lookout while he tried to snag the ring.

OH - and I've just been reminded via It Comes in Pints of Clive Owen, who would have been quite fine as one of the headliners.

Oh, YES Diptera!! Now, Clive Owen is the sort of Boromir I'd always imagined while reading the story.

Who is Clive Owen?