The Coalition of the Swilling

I have to assume that there was a plea to save the cost of a trial, because if this rates only second-degree I can't imagine what it takes to rate first-degree.

Bastards.

I think Ken's in the gold with that. Also notice that they published the names, unusual when teen offenders are concerned. But yes, they ought to go away for a very long time - else one runs the risk of this, or maybe of that. The common thread of the offenders on those two links? Recidivism. (And poor, absentee parenting, but that's a whole nother rant.) What's worst of all, it's not like I had to go very far to find those stories, the links were at the bottom of the page...

That is disgusting. I think they should be removed from the gene pool permanently

My sentiments exactly, CM. EXACTLY. The sad thing is, as a 14 year old he'll be out at 18 ~ 20 at the latest.

Sick little buggers.

It's hard to believe prison will reform a sociopath that evil. Combine that with what THS said and this kid will probably kill someone else before he's put away for life.

Sociopath ~ Exactly. And I'll give you a couple examples in recent Florida history ~

Lionel Tate

A teen who was given a second chance after he beat and stomped a little girl to death when he was 12 has been accused of holding up a pizza delivery man at gunpoint and was ordered held without bond Wednesday.

Alex and Derek King, cherub faced local boys who bashed their father's skull in with a baseball bat while he was sleeping.

(David Rimmer, prosecutor)"When the bond hearing was conducted, the tape recorded confessions of Derek and Alex were presented to the Court as well as the photographs of the crime scene, which I had mounted on a large piece of foam board. During a recess of the proceedings, James Stokes came over to me and asked if he could take a look at the pictures. He picked up the foam board and walked over to where Derek and Alex were seated and propped it right up in front of them. I watched carefully to see what their reactions would be. I assumed that’s why Stokes was showing the pictures to them. You would think that if they loved their father and had not killed him, they would show some kind of shock or sadness when they saw the pictures of their brutally murdered father. But noooo…they cocked their heads from side to side and demonstrated all the curiosity of two boys looking at a dead squirrel.

Just check the links at the bottom of the page - there are a couple of other ones that show the perils of letting these guys go free in short order: Dad kills five-yr old, and man kidnaps, rapes, kills 11-yr old. In each case the perp had a long history of offenses.

I'm just surprised that the kids' names were published. Normally teen offenders are kept anonymous.

FYI, here's the Florida murder statute: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0782/SEC04.HTM&Title=-%3E2005-%3ECh0782-%3ESection%2004#0782.04

As awful as this crime was, I don't see a statutory hook for murder one. Blame my old bosses in the legislature for that.

Dave, forgive me for being dense but what is required to fit the "premeditated" clause? Do they require evidence that the intent to commit the murder was there beforehand?

I'm serious - a beating death like this appears premeditated on the face of it (a rebuttable presumption, perhaps, but what would premiditation require in the way of additional evidence?)

BTW, the snots in Santa Cruz used to call it "troll busting" (the homeless often lived under bridges) but at least those little shits never killed anyone.

It says that in order to join the gang, they had to kill a homeless guy. It also says that they left, and then returned later to continue beating him! And THEN kept on after he pleaded with them for his life. How pre does premeditated have to be?

OK, for some reason I missed that, Nightfly. In fact, I seemed to have missed a lot of the article. Premeditation requires premeditated specific intent to kill, not just a previous general intent to do a particular act (even if death is a reasonably likely result). Here, premeditation DOES seem pretty clear.

My guess as to why they're only being sentenced for murder two is because 1) the article only talks about one of them actually looking to join this gang by killing someone and 2) more importantly, all the potential evidence with respect to premeditation seems to come only from the defendants themselves, which means the prosecutor would've needed to plead them to convict the others. And that may yet be the case with the remaining defendant who hasn't plead. It's unclear from the article what they were initially charged with. In the absence of a plea, in addition to murder one, I would've also expected a conspiracy charge.

I suspect also that their ages may have something to do with the choice of charges. Thanks for the explanation Dave.

And thanks again, Dave. Good explanation that the non-legal can follow.

Although they ARE little sociopaths, 14 or not. Just who you want dating your daughter when he's out in 4 years.

Oh, yeah, THS. Remembering Warren Zevon here... Excitable boy, they all said.