The Coalition of the Swilling

That's only because the Church's hold on secular power has faded in the last 500 years. Were the Church as powerful was it was in 1633, I'm sure Mr. Brown would be shown the instruments of torture and urged to recant his unorthodox historical beliefs.

Indeed. Bill is right.

Precisely my point. The collective 'Us' have (for the most part) made it out of the 1600's. 'Them', on the other hand, have not.

We'll shortly be asking the 20th Century women of Iraq what the Dark Ages are like. Because of 'them', they'll be able to answer.

Beg to differ just a bit on the timing. 15th century yes, 17th century no. Galileo's troubles were more political than religious, despite the power of the church (which was bending to political pressure_

Actually, that's even more proof for the object of my post. If one has to call up the 'church' from hundreds of years (or even a hundred years) ago to make a point in comparison about Islamic fundamentalism today, at this very minute...then it bolsters and validates my point. So yes, Bill's absolutely correct for then. But that 'church' has absolutely no relevance to our here and now, and that absolute power is centuries gone. That's why 'No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!' is a joke. No one's laughing in fundamentalist Islamic states. Or secular states facing a fundamentalist assault; Canada, Iraq, India or Afghanistan for that matter. No one in the world fears an Inquisition or a Crusade ~ it can't happen. The Christian churches of the world don't have that power. Democratic societies won't let them. But they sure as hell worry about Jihad and Sharia, because it's happening all around us. In this here and now.

Precisely, THS. A point that many people miss.

And also the fact that most church folk that I know are also calling Pat a dumb@$$. He and Falwell should both be rapidly removed from the pulpit. The press loves them , since they are such consistent dumb@$$es, but their theological sway within Christianity at large is minimal, at best. But you would not know it from the way the press reports their idiocies.